Fellership Blog

for those wondering >>>and wandering

Door #3 Oneness in relationships – body of Christ, God and one another

Door #3  ONENESS – how does it pertain to the body of Christ?  How does it fit in with our relationship with God and our relationships with others?  { see comments #3,4 HELP!! This Blog is for YOU! }

QUESTIONS: Just what is the oneness that Jesus prayed for in Jn. 17 and Paul talks about in Eph.4? Is that oneness in Jn. the same oneness in Eph?  How do we relate to that oneness today?

Is it…Through “church?”
Through doctrine?
Through agreement on scriptural interpretation?
Through which Bible version we read?
Through the name on the “building?”
Through our similar practices, thinking, traditions?
Through the Spirit?

Any, all, or none of the above? OR is it impossible to have that same oneness today?

Let’s continue our fellership with these topic/doors in mind.  Should you like to introduce another topic to explore, just add it to the list being formulated under HELP!! This Blog is for YOU!  We can also continue fellership with any of the other topics in our archives also.Let’s just keep the fellership flowing!

CLICK BELOW FOR THE BLOG TOPICS AND COMMENTS ACCORDING TO THE MONTH THEY WERE WRITTEN AND ARCHIVED.  

September 2006   

August 2006   

July 2006

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September 6, 2006 - Posted by | Uncategorized

7 Comments »

  1. Charlie, et al,

    Everyone comes to the subject of “religion” seeing the subject through different “persciption” lens. The “perscription” is made up of what your immediate family has imparted, your closest friends influence, your own intellectual meanderings through the subject and maybe, just maybe some of God’s true influences. I personally believe that when you reach a certain level of confidence in yourself as a real and loved person and drop some of your mental baggage, you need to examine carefully the “perscription”. I’m not sure unity in matters of religion will ever occur until we get those “perfect” eyes that have been promised. In matters of faith/salvation we must have unity and in matters of opinion we must have tolerance and in everything we must have love of our brothers and sisters as they examine their “perscriptions”.

    Now, folks, define 1) “matters of faith/salvation”, 2) “matters of opinion”, and 3) what is meant by the word love?

    Comment by mrzerog | September 7, 2006 | Reply

  2. Bob, YOU are our question man DElux! 😆 I love it! You ask questions for all of us. You sly dog, you ;). That’s a good thang :).

    To me “the Spirit of God” takes care of all the above you mention. The problem is that we all have to wade through what the “Spirit” means to us. It means getting personal with God and asking some hard questions as you are doing. If you don’t have much of a relationship with God, ONLY a “church” relationship, then it’s really hard. God is very good at getting us over that hurdle :). I think the first step is “poor in spirit.” You just lose your confidence in yourself and all you were taught. You become destitute. Then comes HUNGER and THIRST.

    Too many “organized, religious, optical clinics” want us to remain dependent upon them for the “glasses” they offer. They will lose business, especially money if we took off those “glasses.”

    It takes a giant step of faith to remove those glasses and believe you can still see and function. Without an intimate relationship with God – impossible!

    When we are born again, God gives us His Spirit. In fact, the Spirit coming into us IS His breath giving us LIFE in our spirit man..behold a NEW creation. Intimacy has begun! Some never reach that step cuz they think or are taught you must DO and you must beleive as you have been taught by what the “opticians” believe and prescribe.

    I think Peter is a good example. His short, but intimate relationship with Jesus, and his hunger and desire to be with him, transcended the wind and the waves and he stepped out of the boat. NOW THAT WAS A BIG STEP!! It defies human reason. Yes, he sunk, but Jesus caught him and took him back to where the others were. Eventually they all had to decide to step out of the boat. There were more lessons they must learn about boats too :). Wow, what an adventure!

    How bad do we want to walk with God? How hungry are we? Can/will we take that BIG step? It MUST be by faith and it must be in spirit. Which to me, means without glasses.

    The Spirit’s job is to teach us. One of the first things we begin to learn is Love, cuz God IS love. It’s a slow growing process and a long winding journey. We may “see men as trees walking” for a while. We may put our glasses back on for a long time. But eventually that intimate relationship takes over more and more. God’s nature gets into our spirit and moves around inside touching our soul and even our body.

    Opinions are part of being human. We all have them. Eventually they become a test too. How much do you love them? They will hinder fellership. It’s OK to have them, but if we must contend with others or God to keep them, then we have our priorities wrong.

    Bottom line: The Spirit takes care of all the above. It’s a learning, growing, walking and trusting process. We sure need others along the way too. Opinions will keep them away. The Spirit can handle it all :).

    Charlie

    Comment by fellership | September 7, 2006 | Reply

  3. QUESTIONS: Just what is the oneness that Jesus prayed for in Jn. 17 and Paul talks about in Eph.4? Is that oneness in Jn. the same oneness in Eph?

    How do we relate to that oneness today?
    Through “church?”
    Through doctrine?
    Through agreement on scriptural interpretation?
    Through which Bible version we read?
    Through the name on the “building?”
    Through our similar practices, thinking, traditions?
    Through the Spirit?

    Or is it impossible to have that same oneness today?

    I’m full of questions ain’t I? NO, my middle name isn’t Bob! 😉

    Charlie
    PS – I’m gonna add these questions to Door #3 intro.

    Comment by cl9 | September 8, 2006 | Reply

  4. Well Chaz

    I’ll make it short, but I couldn’t resist a comment on oneness. That oneness in heaven, where God’s work is done, is already achieved. However, on earth, He desires it to be here as it is in heaven. If we are in Christ, then Christ is ALREADY one with the Father.

    Trouble on earth is with the very things you mention, opinions, doctrine, interpretation etc. I have found that the one thing that all Christians can agree on, is where Christ is revealed through testimony.

    Then it is a true manifestation of His life in a brother or sister. I am learning now, to look beyong a man’s “beliefs” and look into his heart. If I see Christ there, then I can one one with him, as my dear brother and he/she, with me.

    “When Christ is lifted up, He will draw all men unto Him” my paraphrase. I pray for oneness between all of His children, I have seen enough of the walls and divisions in all of their various forms and guises, but in my heart, I believe that God does not see those walls. How could He? His work is done and He is at rest!

    Jhn 17:23 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

    I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

    This surpasses all division, opininion, doctrine and dogma. This is not something that WE can achieve, but that HE has already done! Let us then ask Him to take away the heart of stone and give us all, hearts of flesh and that we may be joined to His work, which is already fully complete and accomplished. That is my prayer every day.

    Sincerely and in Christ’s love to you all

    Cameron.

    PS, Sorry, I guess it wasn’t so short, but I am heavily committed to oneness in Christ, the very thing I was once guilty of opposing myself in so many ways 😦

    Comment by Cameron | September 9, 2006 | Reply

  5. Hi, Cameron! I just dropped in on your comment on my way to run do something and must say that I agree 100% with you on this one. You said it well.

    Comment by Kat | September 9, 2006 | Reply

  6. This is a cut-and-paste of a response I made to a message board where one person asked about the tares and the wheat growing together in the end. He asked whether we could recognize tares in our midst:

    I’ve had some back and forth thoughts on this lately. Can we really watch out for tares? It says that they grow together until the end.

    I’ve been pondering this whole “coming out” business, too. When we first come out of the churches, intentional or otherwise, what are we coming out to? We look back and identify evil in the churches–rebellion, Babylon. Some try house churches or other anti-institutional meetings. They find the same things there. They, if they continue, find it in themselves and repent.

    I am convinced that we will be persecuted in or out of the at-large churches. Perhaps it does not matter whether we are physically in or out. “In this world, you shall have tribulation”–doesn’t He say? “Be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.”

    So are we just protecting our hides when we leave the churches? Are we just learning to hear the Lord better in the wilderness for whatever else He has in store? Frankly, I am amazed at all the environments where I find true followers of God.

    Sometimes I think the churches split apart because they did not discern the multifaceted callings and dealings of God in the lives of His saints. Straining at the gnats of doctrinal pinheads, they created entirely new systems out of limited and very reactive doctrines invented for the purpose of asserting independence. Example: sola scriptura–who ever heard of that in the Bible? And thus, peoples and systems swallowed lots and lots of camels, persecuted one another and spread rumors about one another that persist to this day.

    Within the framework of these various systems are believers of specialized giftings that work in one system (more or less) but not in another. So, yes, I’m saying that a system may hold a door of opportunity to one kind of saint, but can be the kiss of death to another–to all these I blame the governance of the system, but not necessarily the grouping of the saints.

    What if God calls us to walk completely alone outside any systems? Suppose He sends us to a Siberan labor camp where the fellowship does not involve going to the “church of your choice”? Suppose he calls us to walk among Lutherans because they happen to have a door open where He desires us to go? Which is more important–where our bodies are or that we can discern God’s voice and obey?

    The world is fraught with dangers. The churches are fraught with dangers. Take your pick. I have seen the possibility in my mind’s eye of the “death” of the collective humanity of Jesus. The collective must pass the way of Christ who said, “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.” How will that be unless we also go through a sort of enlarged-humanity-of-Jesus sort of death and resurrection? I see it coming, though. And whether it’s a whole collective outside the camp or the collective in all the various places, I do not know.

    I found a secular project the other day called “The Forgiveness Project” and thought it an overall good idea. But someone sent me to this link and this guy’s role blows the whole thing out of the water:
    http://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/peter-tatchell
    If we are talking “tares”, I’d guess maybe this guy is a good example. He might not be in the “church” proper, but look at how he is shifting what the church supposedly believes to what it supposedly should have believed all along…

    Dimwit “Christians” have used this Leviticus verse to beat gays over the head (what spirit is THIS?) without even understanding its context in the course of the Book of books. The gays they beat over the head, don’t read the Bible nor understand much of it for the most part. So
    they focus on this one part as a “hate” text.

    Now notice how slippery this guy is. He throws out that part of the text–“Bad Christians! Boo hoo!” and then he slips in something called “homophobia” and calls it a sin that Christians need to repent of. “Homophobia” of course is nowhere to be found or implied in scripture. Scriptures about hating one’s brother and murdering one another may be
    found, but not specifically “homophobia”. There are other particulars I won’t get into involving the churches’ treatment of gays, but for the moment I wish to illustrate the point of the bait-and-switch tactic of church doctrines.

    This fellow is doing much of what liberal theologians do when they shift and reshape what has always been understood of scripture. They get rid of one idea and then insert another in such a way that Christians are fooled into thinking the Church has always believed that way but didn’t know it until recently. And notice that he is forgiving the church for its treatment of gays…which thing, given the church-joined-to-state in the old days, I do not know how to assess.

    I hope I made everybody think. This bait-and-switch is something to be carefully watched. It is always good to keep an eye on ourselves, too, that we don’t become paranoid and fear to walk wherever God has placed us.

    Comment by Kat | September 11, 2006 | Reply

  7. Excellent comments, Kat. I agree wholeheartedly.

    Comment by Cameron | September 24, 2006 | Reply


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